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Post by lordrahl on Dec 17, 2009 21:39:48 GMT -5
personally I'd take Lord Nexus' finishers!!
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Post by chewey on Dec 17, 2009 21:45:28 GMT -5
Are the amount of down-3's designated on a card potentially more important than a lower Pin Rating if a match reaches a certain point. Maybe...but what if that factor isn't automatically triggered? Should it be measured as inevitable or do you create an alternate potentiality formula? If so where is the cut off on measuring all that potentialities involved in game play? A static system can uniformly tell us 'what is' under a limited context at the expense of 'all that could be'. It's a trade off. Absolutely true. As it is, Rahl's formula is one of the most useful tools for creating bootlegs relative to other bootlegs, as you and I both know since we both use it extensively. If it were more complicated and included standard deviations to a fraction of a decimal, I'm sure I wouldn't use it for the purposes of creating COTG characters. But it's still fun to use it to debate questions like fewer downs or lower PIN, or F(+3) or 2F(0)'s? I find the system fascinating, really. Like what if I were to "save" Rahl points on L1O by giving a character four move-2(ag)'s and "spend" those points elsewhere, but construct the card in a way that his card would never roll on L1O making it virtually irrelevant how weak it is? Getting semi-back on topic to card creation guidelines though, one tip I've learned from the Rahl system is to correspond a strong ropes rating with a strong power rating, and a strong turnbuckle rating with a strong agility rating. It matches up better defensively when opponents roll either a (ch A) or (ch B).
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Post by chewey on Dec 17, 2009 21:57:21 GMT -5
personally I'd take Lord Nexus' finishers!! Hey Rahl, how about posting that Rahl 30 character that you said would run most other creations out of the building?
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Post by lordrahl on Dec 17, 2009 22:19:11 GMT -5
personally I'd take Lord Nexus' finishers!! Hey Rahl, how about posting that Rahl 30 character that you said would run most other creations out of the building? Hey maybe we could use it as a boot for Galacticon???
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Post by chewey on Dec 18, 2009 8:05:59 GMT -5
Another guideline that Rahl pointed out to me last night that isn't necessarily a rule, but keeps in line with how Tom writes cards:
Agility wrestlers should have some (pw) moves on their offense, despite the fact that they'll usually have weak Power ratings. This is important because if you take for example, a bootleg for Rey Mysterio who would probably have a -4 Agility rating, there are moves that would work against smaller opponents that wouldn't work against a Power wrestler like Batista.
It's not hard to see that if your wrestler has a Power rating of +4, you're not going to want to give him (pw) moves but write in three (ag) moves in order to meet Rahl's "par" formula of having three (ag)/(pw) moves on L1O, but in keeping with the way Tom does things, smaller agility wrestlers should have (pw) moves on them.
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Post by Swarm on Dec 18, 2009 8:33:55 GMT -5
I think one thing that gets over looked a lot is a real simple one.
Just look at the guy you are creating and be honest with it. Know what you are creating. If you have a 250lb. guy with a bunch of agility moves, don't give him -3 power. I see that kind of thing all the time. If you create a big power wrestler, think about all the things that *MAKE SENSE* for that character. is he really going to have a A ropes...? Probably not.
I think the Rahl ratings are great, but I also think they can and are used as a tool to "beat the system" sometimes. Just decided on the character you want to create. Be realistic about it and however it turns out it turns out.
The best characters are the ones that are designed based on the personality of the fighter. What would this guy do here, or here...how would he react to this or that...you have to "know" your characters before you can ever really bring them to life.
As Tom always says, "I can look at a card and tell you how strong it is." I feel the same way.
While I am interested in seeing the Rahl ratings for GWFZ Invazion 2124 I purposely avoided them during design.
The number one ingredient in this game is imagination. When you start moving things around and putting things in certain spots on your card based off of a numbering system, I think you lose that.
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Post by Chilling Nightmare on Dec 18, 2009 9:57:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I go with every wrestler with just a feel. I know what I'm aiming for and I go until I have that created. I don't worry about any ratings to the wrestler. In the end, its your dice who will determine how succesful he is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2009 11:21:18 GMT -5
I think one thing that gets over looked a lot is a real simple one. Just look at the guy you are creating and be honest with it. Know what you are creating. If you have a 250lb. guy with a bunch of agility moves, don't give him -3 power. I see that kind of thing all the time. If you create a big power wrestler, think about all the things that *MAKE SENSE* for that character. is he really going to have a A ropes...? Probably not. I think the Rahl ratings are great, but I also think they can and are used as a tool to "beat the system" sometimes. Just decided on the character you want to create. Be realistic about it and however it turns out it turns out. The best characters are the ones that are designed based on the personality of the fighter. What would this guy do here, or here...how would he react to this or that...you have to "know" your characters before you can ever really bring them to life. As Tom always says, "I can look at a card and tell you how strong it is." I feel the same way. While I am interested in seeing the Rahl ratings for GWFZ Invazion 2124 I purposely avoided them during design. The number one ingredient in this game is imagination. When you start moving things around and putting things in certain spots on your card based off of a numbering system, I think you lose that. One of the best posts ever. It's not important that your guy have 3 L3 moves on L2O. He can be strong in other ways that can help him get to L3O. The amount of dazed's, hurt's and down's are big factor as well. Like Swarm said, be realistic. Make an interesting character, that is the challenge.
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Post by chewey on Dec 19, 2009 12:04:09 GMT -5
Well, for purposes of this thread I suggest using the Rahl system as guidelines for creating characters. PIN 6(3) with two downs and having three (ag)/(pw) moves on L1O is a good starting point to create a wrestler even if they're not rigid rules and can be balanced by other factors as Payback suggests. Some people have a natural knack at creating wrestlers that fit exactly in line with Tom's relative scale, and some people are like Swarm who has on numerous occasions stated that he spends a lot of time studying the official game cards and has probably picked up on a lot of the nuances that other people have not. I think the Rahl ratings are great, but I also think they can and are used as a tool to "beat the system" sometimes. I am guilty of occasionally trying to "beat the system" but I still believe in using the system to calibrate a roster. I have not shared my toned down versions of the popular Anthony Duclos and Jamie B. Wilson bootlegs of the 1990s (with permission from the former and I was close friends with the latter so I don't think he would mind), but I think people who are familiar with those characters would be pleasantly surprised that I have brought them down far enough that you could use them with GWF cards without blowing away the competition like they did before. Like Swarm said, be realistic. Make an interesting character, that is the challenge. Creating a personality is first and foremost for any character in any medium, whether it be real wrestling, fiction writing, television, or COTG character creation, but for purposes of writing stats, it's all about relativity. How one wrestler's card would react with another wrestler's card. And how two wrestlers could have the same "rating" but have their own unique advantages and disadvantages with similar opponents due to different ring styles. Just look at the guy you are creating and be honest with it. Know what you are creating. If you have a 250lb. guy with a bunch of agility moves, don't give him -3 power. I see that kind of thing all the time. If you create a big power wrestler, think about all the things that *MAKE SENSE* for that character. is he really going to have a A ropes...? Probably not. I think the rules of character creation have been pretty well set in Swarm's first post of this thread. But I think, as is my intention with some of my posts in this thread, that it would be a helpful resource to also post guidelines that can be followed or ignored, like having some (pw) moves for agility wrestlers so that it reflects that might struggle against bigger, power wrestlers while dominating competition at the lower weights. I think Swarm's comment about power wrestlers not having A ropes is another good guideline, although I don't necessarily agree because while a power wrestler might not be pulling off sunset flips left and right, I've always imagined them doing other moves like DDTs and boots to faces, etc.
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Post by chewey on Dec 19, 2009 12:04:54 GMT -5
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Thought it would be easier to consolidate four separate posts into one big one!
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