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Post by mikefortune on Jul 11, 2011 22:09:08 GMT -5
I have around 400+ bootlegs and only about 50 of these I will use or have used. Some are way to strong others have bad game mechanics and some have horrible gimmicks. At this years G-con we had what was possibly the worst game gimmick ever. What I am wondering is do you use every bootleg or just a choice few and what makes or breaks a bootleg for you.
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Post by SuperNaturalX on Jul 11, 2011 22:26:51 GMT -5
what was the gimmick?
and to answer the question No, I do not use all my bootlegs.
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Pete
Fighting Titan
Un, deux, trois, dis: Miror Noir
Posts: 130
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Post by Pete on Jul 12, 2011 0:50:56 GMT -5
Not to butt in for Mike but it involved a shootfight/martial arts type guy...forget his name. Any time a chart was rolled during the match by either guy, you had to roll two dice to see if he did some move called the Siamese Plum or something. And the dice roll had to be equal to or below 4 + opponent fatigue. And if it didn't work the guy had to roll on the chart defensively (even if he was on offense to start). And his charts were straight C's.
All kinds of stuff wrong with it. Excessive and pointless math involved (why start with 4?), the entire match was all about rolling for this move rather than anything else, and for all of this calculating and rolling, the move was a simple Level 3 move. No Add 1, no finisher, no adding to the finisher rating a la Kill Prey...so no real point. I wasn't in the match but I did watch it, and it was interminable.
I'm not trying to rant too much here--in fact for Territories I was saved from including an equally pointless (albeit simpler) mechanic on Abattoir's card.
I enjoy looking at and reading stories behind bootlegs but don't use them that much myself. However, I do have some hang-ups that would prevent me from ever using certain cards in a bootleg fed or in the Z:
- Touched on above: pointlessly elaborate mechanics. I get it, coming up with new card mechanics is fun. I've created and used a number of special matches that many would find absolutely mind-numbing. And the "number + opponent fatigue" thing I described above is actually something I've used when creating LOW cards for the '90s All-Japan guys. Having said all that, COTG best works as a fast-paced game. Generally speaking, a mechanic shouldn't involve excessive math or excessive dice-rolling, and it shouldn't come up more than a few times per match, if it comes up at all.
Generally, it's probably for the best for a new mechanic to be playtested a few times before being implemented. I get that sample size might be an issue, but sometimes ideas look better on paper or in your head than in actual execution.
- Probably the most common criticism: stacked cards. Not much explanation necessary. I don't mind getting main event-caliber guys, but no one* in COTG history has had double +4 finishers, or both Agility and Power being -3 or better, or 4 comebacks on L2D. I honestly think it takes more skill to create a compelling Interplanetary-level guy than Monolith-meets-Destructon 3000.
* There are exceptions to all of these, I know, but I'm talking generalities.
- Excessively hardcore guys. The movement is passe and I was never all that high on it to start with, either with COTG or with real-life wrestling. I guess this applies more to special matches than to wrestlers, but I could do without either. Abattoir's a hardcore guy but he was almost created as a deconstruction of such. He's got more in common with Randy the Ram or post-2000 Mick Foley than with your average CZW goofball. (Necro Butcher's a hell of a nice guy, though, and one of the better guys at that style).
- I actually don't get too hung-up on card rule errors. For one thing I have fewer qualms about simply changing the card if there's something like "move - 1 (pw)" or a card with no turnbuckle or "ch B." Besides, Kati and Theatre of Pain have rule violations all over the place and they seemed to work fine for myself and lots of other people.
This post has probably already gone longer than it needed to, but that's how I see things. It's sometimes easier said than done but I prefer getting a bunch of creative mid-carders than generic, lame main eventers.
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Post by jimsteel on Jul 12, 2011 0:58:41 GMT -5
I think they are talking about one of the Lost-Found of the Classics Era Cards we used from the Promoter for Chewey's Tournament
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Post by mikefortune on Jul 12, 2011 10:05:17 GMT -5
The bootleg was called Negro Morte, watched the game and it was painful to watch. If I was playing it I would have just quit after the first 10 minutes and I am not lying about the time.
I agree with Jim, gimmicks should be simple the game is made to be fast games not Brute vs Man Mountain. If that match had gimmicks that made that match even slower I might have quit using any wrestlers who had gimmicks.
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Post by Chilling Nightmare on Jul 12, 2011 10:46:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I watched part of that match too......painful is putting it mildly. I think I had all my matches in the tourney in half the time that one match ran.
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Post by SuperNaturalX on Jul 12, 2011 12:32:00 GMT -5
oh, him, I have that card downloaded, but have never used it due to the weird gimmick. He would have to be reworked befor I used him.
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thormassive
Fighting Titan
2010 GalactiCal Heavyweight Champion West Coast.
Posts: 173
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Post by thormassive on Jul 12, 2011 14:14:38 GMT -5
I'm a bootleg whore. I have no idea how many I have. In saying that. In my bootleg fed I use the 10 - 80 - 10 principle. 10% of the roster usually 3 cards can have a +3 or higher finisher. And only one finisher at that. 80 is +2 or lower with an occasional add 1 if I like the art. The last ten are my meatheads that have a (0) finisher or none at all. I never use gimmick cards, or I just make it a (0) and leave it that. I say in the new Z set a couple of cards I just will never use due to being way to powerful or gimicked. I have all the L-Fsce cards but I haven't put them to use. But yeah I think there are to many monsters out there.
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Post by Justin Case on Jul 12, 2011 19:19:11 GMT -5
I'm like ThorMassive, I have a ton of bootlegs, stuff people have shared, given or ones I've created myself. I do have that card Mike is speaking of, never used it, maybe one day I'll play around with it just to see what it does. I often have so many, most will probably never get played. More of just collecting stuff to have "Justin Case" I want to change things up a bit and just play random cards for shits and giggles.
I think I mostly collect stuff for nostalgia purposes because I enjoy seeing others with their creativity and what not. Probably not so much to play though.
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Post by Chilling Nightmare on Jul 18, 2011 6:07:29 GMT -5
That's why I did it for years, but now they're just taking up too much space for me. Why I plan on eventually dropping everything except my WGX bootlegs (I'll never let those go)
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