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Post by Swarm on Aug 23, 2013 8:43:05 GMT -5
So, the ending to SummerSlam is still bothering me, especially after the way Daniel Bryan was handled on RAW. Really got me thinking about the WWE as a whole, and how when you really think about it, the whole entire fed is filled with dishonorable assholes. Both good guys and bad guys, from top to bottom. There is literally zero actual competition of sport left in the WWE. Think about it. What is the point of a "Daniel Bryan run at the title" when the owner of the company takes the belt off of him and tells everyone he can't be their champ? So where's the money in the chase, when you've already made it clear to the fans that winning the belt - means nothing? What's stopping HHH from doing that again?
On top of HHH doing whatever he wants just like Vince, we constantly have wrestlers interfering in matches, coming out to their own music in the middle of others wrestlers matches, and taking voluntary count out losses when they aren't even champions. None of this makes any sense. Don't wrestlers want to win the winners purse? Why is the WWE so strict about some things (like how their champion looks), but then just let their sound guy play the music of whoever feels like interfering in a match at anytime? Wouldn't at some point someone say something about that? The guys like Ryback just take losses. Not even a champion. Isn't this guy trying to make a living? I get it if you're a champion. But no belt? Makes no sense.
It's like every wrestler is booked to disrespect his opponent, and show no respect for themselves or the sport. Not to mention they do all of this on EVERY show, basically making every character, every story and every show the same. Anyone else notice this or am I just seeing things?
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Post by chewey on Aug 23, 2013 8:51:24 GMT -5
I have always thought playing a wrestler's entrance before he interferes was dumb. If we were to pretend that wrestling was real, are we supposed to believe that a guy watching the action from a backstage monitor is thinking "omg, my buddy is getting beat down..." and then runs to the sound guy to find his audio track before running down the ramp to make a save?
And suppose that is what the wrestlers do.... Then that supports your subject of wrestlers having no honor, as they would rather look good and enter in style and let their buddy absorb a few more blows than haul ass and get down there right away.
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Post by Swarm on Aug 23, 2013 8:52:31 GMT -5
Another problem is wrestlers are ALWAYS interrupting each other. Even the faces. More asshole moves. Back in the day guys got over because they cut a promo, said what they had to say, we listened, and stayed focused on them. Now, one guy comes out, then another, then another etc...then you have 4-5 people in the ring talking, yadda, yadda and no one gets over because no one is ever really the focus. It's just one clusterfuck talking segment after another. And why? No honor. What happened to letting your fellow wrestlers speak, do their promo, mind your own business and wait your turn?
And again, EVERY wrestler in the fed does this. Not one of them doesn't.
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Post by chewey on Aug 23, 2013 9:50:34 GMT -5
Another problem is wrestlers are ALWAYS interrupting each other. Even the faces. More asshole moves. Back in the day guys got over because they cut a promo, said what they had to say, we listened, and stayed focused on them. Now, one guy comes out, then another, then another etc...then you have 4-5 people in the ring talking, yadda, yadda and no one gets over because no one is ever really the focus. It's just one clusterfuck talking segment after another. And why? No honor. What happened to letting your fellow wrestlers speak, do their promo, mind your own business and wait your turn? And again, EVERY wrestler in the fed does this. Not one of them doesn't. That's on Stephanie and her sitcom writers. I've been watching a lot of throwback WWF stuff from the 80s and 90s when they would just give a wrestler a mic, tell him to get a point across, and give him five minutes to do it. There were a lot of duds and a lot of promos that went on too long, but the alternative has been the over scripted twenty minute promos that kick off every show, sometimes involving half a brand's roster before the first commercial break.
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reno
GWFZ upstart
Posts: 23
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Post by reno on Aug 23, 2013 15:36:54 GMT -5
It's like every wrestler is booked to disrespect his opponent, and show no respect for themselves or the sport. For people age 30-45 (I'm 37), wrestling the way our parents knew it died the day Superstar Billy Graham won the WWWF title. For us, wrestling the way we knew it died the day heels got their own merch (nWo in the '90's would be my guess, but it could easily be the Horsemen in the '80's, or even Graham in the '70's). That was your 'honor/respect' and w/out that cooperation there is no point in NOT undercutting the person you're in the ring w/ every chance you get. Heels being in it for themselves is backwards, and ridiculous, but it's been that way for @ least 15 years, and that is the reason why wrestling has no honor/respect.
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Post by chewey on Aug 23, 2013 16:50:16 GMT -5
That's a very good point about wrestling for our parents. My dad has said that WWF was never the same after Bruno Sammartino, even though his matches always followed the same formula of the Hogan-Cena matches.
I'm actually starting to think that my favorite style of wrestling happened in the 90s. There was a lot of gimmicky crap at that time, but watching Bret vs. Perfect, Roddy Piper vs. Rick Rude in a cage, Rude vs. Steamboat in a 30-min iron man, Ric Flair in the 1992 Royal Rumble, Bret-Austin at Survivor Series, and Owen vs. Davey Boy for the European Championship were all matches that I'd rather watch over anything available today, including ROH and all of those indies. If I remember to, maybe I'll post some YouTube links on Swarm's other thread later this weekend.
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Mr. Jimmyface
Fighting Titan
"I'm your bookerman, bitch!"
Posts: 259
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Post by Mr. Jimmyface on Aug 24, 2013 9:51:08 GMT -5
There is not a promoter out there who does the right thing for the business. To me, the right thing to do is to let the people who book/write the show have absolutely no part of the show in or out of the ring. You are running the show. Do you really think that without your active participation in that night's event it cannot succeed? Every time you insert yourself into the show that night, no matter how noble your intentions, you are taking time and money away from someone else on your roster.
Let's put this into a regular work scenario. Most of us work in an industry or career where we are paid for our efforts. Imagine if your boss were to come up to you and say "Go home, I got this. Oh, and since you're going home, you're not going to be paid." In addition to hurt feelings for having you and your talent dismissed, there is a financial doubt about your ability to earn a living and provide for those who count on you. Worse, how on Earth can an employee ever be counted on to give their best efforts to someone who clearly does not respect them?
HHH is nothing unique to the business. I could write all morning about promoters inserting themselves into their products. From Nick Gulas to Dusty Rhodes, there are many examples to point to. And to be blunt, HHH is not in a position where he can see clearly. He has a father in law and wife who cannot separate themselves from their business. There are people around him desperate to keep their jobs and their spots, and to keep their spots, they have learned that saying no to the boss is the first rule of their jobs. I'm not going to turn this into a HHH whine and cheese party, but I do wonder what would happen if the same man who sat down with Vince McMahon in Indianapolis in 1995 could meet the man he is now in 2013. For the life of me, I don't know if he'd be outraged, or if the two would high five each other.
Swarm, as usual, is right on the money. HHH had absolutely no reason to be involved in this storyline, let alone the match. For the fans to get involved and support your show, there has to be a connection to the people they are paying their money and/or taking their time to see. In the 21st century, this is the age of multimedia and social networking. There are literally thousand of options out there for how we choose to entertain ourselves. So anytime anyone takes the time to choose your show, that's the highest compliment you can get. They chose you because you provided something that they could get behind and choose to identity with. And to set something up that get the fans involved, and then choose to change the direction that brought them in, you're going to lose them.
I don't tell everyone I know that I am a wrestling fan, because professional wrestling cannot keep up with the 21st century, and I try to live a very progressive life. It's not terribly hard, in my opinion, but it does involve willingness to change. Change is difficult, but it is vital to life. Ability to change is what makes people strong. Puberty was a bear for all of us, but look at the end result. An improved and more amazing human being. I liken the process to being a tree. Do not become so set in your ways and beliefs that your bark prevents you from being moved in the breeze. Keep flexible, keep reaching, keep growing.
Professional wrestling does not need to evolve. It can cling to words such as "tradition" or "pastime" for comfort, not knowing how often those words are given to that which has simply outlived any true usefulness. It is a conscious decision to evolve oneself. Some promoters will evolve, others will die off. Wrestling will still continue in different incarnations for the rest of my natural life. I'm just curious to see who will come along to improve on the craft, and who will fail to meet the challenge.
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